Talk:Four Fours/197/Solutions/1

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I feel like we need to limit what kinds of aritmetical operations are allowed for this puzzle.

I think the floor and ceiling functions should be disallowed, as repeated applications of factorials, Gamma, sqrt and ceil/floor on $4$ can produce a lot of different integers.


(In Four Fours/Historical Note:

He finishes with a reference to an article by Donald Ervin Knuth in which it is proved that all positive integers up to $208$ can be expressed with nothing but one $4$, instances of the square root sign, the factorial sign, and parentheses.

was this Knuth's method?)


Similarly:

$\map \Gamma 4 !! \times 4 + \dfrac {\sqrt 4} {.4} = 48 \times 4 + 5 = 197$

could be allowed, but we cannot allow multifactorials more than the double, e.g.:

$\paren {4!} \underbrace{!!\dots!}_{16} + \dfrac {4! - 4} 4 = 24 \times \paren {24 - 16} + 5 = 197$

would be too much.


We have currently used addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, factorial, Gamma function, square root, (multiple roots), exponentiation;

and for $4$'s, concatenation, decimal point and repeated decimals notations.

I am still strugging to find a representation of $197$ using those only. --RandomUndergrad (talk) 05:31, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

What about the successor function $\map s 4 = 5$?
I'm for being inclusive. Those who are reading round the subject will be able to evaluate the result for themselves. "Oh dear, you can't do $197$ without using the floor function."
Knuth's solution is worth jstoring for. I'll post it up in due course as it adds an interesting slant to the question.
As has been determined long back, you can't do $113$ without using Gamma. Some suggest you shouldn't include the square root sign because it implicitly implies a $2$. Some don't allow $44$ or $.4$ and so on because they are shorthand for an expression which requires a $10$ to join the party. So it goes. If we impose a gatekeeping policy we'll be limiting our experience.
Just my NSHO. --prime mover (talk) 06:24, 15 February 2022 (UTC)